mylifemyfaith ([info]mylifemyfaith) wrote,
@ 2008-08-24 09:21:00
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Why I did not Join the Episcopal Church in the First Place
1. Authoritarian Bishops- especially the blatantly sexist Jack Iker of the Diocese of Fort Worth. At least the UMC wasn't conducting an actual witch-hunt for gay clergy the way the Diocese of Fort Worth and the Diocese of Dallas were.

2. An utterly ignorant African priest who served as a locum in the parish I was attending in Irving.

3. I wanted to attend church with Mom, and Mom was UMC.

4. The conflict between progressives and conservatives made respectful dialogue impossible.

Of those three reasons, 2 and 3 are no longer relevant. 1 is still a concern. If I absolutely need complete freedom from control from above, I need to be in a congregational denomination like the UCC. OTOH, if my problem was just with certain schismatic and ultra-conservative bishops, and I can get on with ordinary conservative bishops just fine, TEC would have a structure more like the UMC one I'm used to. Plus, I do think that episcopacy is biblical, though I don't think we have to follow Biblical models if we have a good reason not to. But we can't just abandon them for no reason. Therefore, I need to do more research into the Reformation and the Reformed and the Puritans reasons for abandoning Episcopacy.


As for Reason 4, I need to see if the conflict has died down a bit, to see if progressives, moderates, and conservatives can dwell in peace in TEC, as they do in the UCC. Because, if conservatives can get along in the UCC, and the UCC, though it's even more liberal then TEC,
can remain a member in good standing of the World Alliance of Reformed Churches, then the UCC clearly has more of the essence of the Church then TEC, episcopacy notwithstanding!



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[info]athanasios
2008-08-24 07:49 pm UTC (link)
TEC is being ripped apart with the GLBT issues. A couple of years ago I spoke with a former Episcopal priest who is now a "missionary of the Rwandan Anglican Church" in the USA. Essentially, he and his congregation where too conservative for TEC so they aligned themselves with a bishop in Rwanda. This sort of thing is happening all over the USA, and it is tragic.

I knew when you posted that you where interested in TEC that it would cause problems for you.

I was baptized and confirmed by a priest and a bishop affiliated with the Society of St. Pius X. I understand conservatism/traditionalism. Giving the UCC a chance seems the best course of action. I've considered doing dual affiliation as a UU and also as a UCC -- still considering that as an option. I had a UCC minister once tell me that UCC stands for Unitarians Considering Christ. I got a laugh out of that one.

I'll be on campus tomorrow (until Friday). We should get together, at least meet.

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[info]mylifemyfaith
2008-08-24 10:55 pm UTC (link)
Certainly. My campus phone extension is (740-362)3449, my apartment is 03 in the basement.

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[info]athanasios
2008-08-25 12:00 am UTC (link)
Basement of which building? I'm living in the dorms (is that Dewire?) room 211.

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[info]mylifemyfaith
2008-08-25 12:19 am UTC (link)
I'm in the Helen Warner Apartment Building. Are you at MTSO right now?

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[info]athanasios
2008-08-25 12:23 am UTC (link)
I'm not there now. I'll be there tomorrow and my typical week will be arrival on Monday afternoon (I work in the dining hall several days a week and start tomorrow) and leave on Friday afternoon. I will be on campus a few Friday - Saturdays as I'm taking the Intro to Christian Ethics class.

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[info]mylifemyfaith
2008-08-25 01:01 pm UTC (link)
I'll knock on your door around 1:00 on Tuesday, how about that?

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[info]athanasios
2008-08-25 01:14 pm UTC (link)
Not sure where I'll be on Tuesday at that time. I have class in the morning, there is a worship service later morning, and I have to work at the dining hall from 3 - 7. I'll try to look you up today. I'll be on campus in a few hours and have work in the dining hall from 3 - 7 today.

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[info]mylifemyfaith
2008-08-25 02:13 pm UTC (link)
How about tonight at 8:00, then. You see, we in the HWAB can get into the dorm so that we can use the chapel and excercise room, but the HWAB has key locks so dorm students can't get into our building. Also, I will be at chapel on Tuesday, so I'll look out for you. The icon is me.

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[info]athanasios
2008-08-25 02:35 pm UTC (link)
Tonight at 8:00 sounds splendid. If I'm not in the lounge then I should either be a. in my room (211) or b. in the exercise room. Of course my icon is me as well, but my beard has come in much thicker.

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[info]mylifemyfaith
2008-08-26 12:13 am UTC (link)
I'll be over in a bit- I'm not quite done with dinner, sorry.

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Catching up with you...
[info]pcusaboy
2008-08-25 05:40 am UTC (link)
I agree with a lot of what you say in this post, but I assure you, the UCC has its own struggles. In many congregations it's very libertarian and lacks a deep and abiding faith. Some folks in the UCC have been so hurt by traditional Christian that they're open to almost anything but Jesus. It's an interesting setting for ministry, to say the least.

How are you doing? What are you doing these days? Email me: WBJamison@gmail.com

Please know that I wish you all the best and pray for you regularly. Your courage in coming out gives me strength to continue the struggle toward equality and justice.

Grace and Peace,

WES

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Re: Catching up with you...
[info]ladytamli
2008-08-25 06:44 am UTC (link)
Actually, I think I'd label most liberal Christians that way in general..

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Re: Catching up with you...
[info]mylifemyfaith
2008-08-25 01:25 pm UTC (link)
"In many congregations it's very libertarian and lacks a deep and abiding faith. Some folks in the UCC have been so hurt by traditional Christian that they're open to almost anything but Jesus. It's an interesting setting for ministry, to say the least."

Yes, precisely.... thus my real struggle between becoming Episcopalian and remaining UCC. There is much that is good, much that is catholic, much that is true in the heritage of the UCC. As I say in my profile I am drawn to the Mercersburg theology that came from the Evangelical and Reformed tradition.

The Ohio Conference of the UCC is HEAVILY weighted twords the E and R tradition, which delayed my confrontation with these issues up until now.

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Christians vs. Christians
[info]ladytamli
2008-08-25 06:43 am UTC (link)
In my experience, it doesn't matter what denomination...or really, what religion...you belong to; there will always be conflict between the conservatives and liberals, or progressives and traditionalists, or whatever else you want to call them.

I've honestly gotten to the point where I know that no one is going to completely agree with anyone else, and the best I can do is try and stay true to what I believe the truth to be, and to constantly seek out the truth from our Lord.

Bad thing about the truth, though, is that I'm afraid it's not going to fit -any- denomination's doctrines completely.

That's my two cents, anyways. XD I wish you lots of luck with your search!

Just remember, you don't have to be an official anything in order to serve God. :)

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[info]amaebi
2008-08-25 03:18 pm UTC (link)
I really enjoy reading you working out what your fundamental parameters are-- what's essential to you and what's vital to your happiness and what's negotiable. The combination is facinating, too....

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[info]mylifemyfaith
2008-08-25 04:03 pm UTC (link)
Thanks. I hope this helps you too.

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