mylifemyfaith ([info]mylifemyfaith) wrote,
@ 2008-08-13 17:03:00
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AGAIN!?!
Well, I am starting to think that actually I belong in the Episcopal church, not the UCC. Perhaps I will be more comfortable in a credal, liturgical denomination.

Perhaps this is just toxic second guessing. Only time will tell, but I'm scaling back my involvement at Zion UCC while I figure things out.

I'm going to visit St. Peter's this Sunday, and St. Patrick's in Dublin (they have an under-30s bible study) next Sunday.

One thing I can say is that after I made this decision I felt peace rather then worry for the first time in a long time.

Edit: OK, reverse things. I will attend both Zion and St. Patrick's this Sunday (St. Pat's has an evening folk mass using a liturgy from Kenya), St. Peter's next Sunday.

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[info]athanasios
2008-08-13 11:47 pm UTC (link)
I'm considering becoming a Methodist...

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[info]mylifemyfaith
2008-08-14 01:59 am UTC (link)
The local conference is probably way to conservative for you, but by all means attend a Methodist service or two and assess where you stand. Be sure to attend a conservative church like Grace as well as a liberal one like Williams' Street or Asbury. Read the Book of Discipline (the UMC's code of canon law) and see if you can obey it, because it's binding.

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[info]mylifemyfaith
2008-08-14 02:00 am UTC (link)
I would probably still be a Methodist if I was straight, that or Lutheran.

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[info]athanasios
2008-08-14 08:17 am UTC (link)
Do you think the UMC will ever change its attitude towards the notion of gay clergy? It only seems a matter of time, most mainline churches are going that route.

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[info]mylifemyfaith
2008-08-14 12:57 pm UTC (link)
Right now, the UMC seems determined to prove itself the exception to the rule of progress. The UMC is moving to a more hardline conservative stance on LGBT issues. At the recent general conference the UMC eliminated lanugage urging parents not to reject their gay children and urging people not to discriminate against LGBTs in civil society. The UMC is pleged now to activly work against gay rights.

This has caused Methodist conferences in progressive states to move twords open schism.

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[info]mylifemyfaith
2008-08-14 12:59 pm UTC (link)
I should add that the UMC is an international church, and conferences from African countries which execute people for 'sodomy' have an equal voice in the UMC's general conference with those from California and Massachusetts. The UMC's current stance can be seen as an attempt to hold together very divergent cultures in one church.

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[info]athanasios
2008-08-14 01:46 pm UTC (link)
Sounds like the same problem the Episcopal Church is having. Being more invested in the notion of apostolic succession and working within the jurisdiction of a bishop the current crises has caused many conservative congregation to seek bishops in Africa in which to become "mission churches." Its an interesting phenomenon from a sociological point of view, but from a social justice stand-point its horrible.

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[info]amaebi
2008-08-14 03:38 am UTC (link)
Well, one can be civilly disobedient, too.

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[info]athanasios
2008-08-14 08:06 am UTC (link)
The local conference is probably way to conservative for you, but by all means attend a Methodist service or two and assess where you stand.

That is a concern of mine. Many years ago I used to be a Traditionalist Roman Catholic. They are more conservative than Pope Benedict XVI. Being a "Unitarian Universalist" now is as liberal as they come, but I'm not fitting into that practice. I've moved away from Paganism (much to my wife's dismay), and the UUA doesn't seem like an acceptable fit for me -- especially a lay lead fellowship with many informal power structures controlled by atheists. I worry about the Methodists being too conservative, although I am familiar with navigating within conservative (albeit ultra-conservative) structures.

Be sure to attend a conservative church like Grace as well as a liberal one like Williams' Street or Asbury.

I would probably attend a church in Springfield, Ohio where I am from. Are you familiar with any UMC Churches in my area?

Read the Book of Discipline (the UMC's code of canon law) and see if you can obey it, because it's binding.

I tried to pick up a copy at the bookstore, but they convinced me to wait until February when the new one comes out. I studied Catholic canon law when I was a monk at Christ the King Monastery and developed a love for ecclesiology, so if I can get my hands on one I can easily translate the "legalness" of the book into more practical usage and discern if I can, as you say, obey it. The Unitarian Universalists don't have a similar document. They do have bylaws and such but nothing doctrinal or close to "canon law."

I've been reading some John Cobb and process theology. Cobb is, I believe a Methodist, and taught at Claremont in California (a UMC school). Do you know if Cobb and the likes of John Hick (another theologian I like) are readily accepted in UMC circles? I'm also a fan of Paul Tillich, although he is of a Lutheran background.

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[info]mylifemyfaith
2008-08-14 01:01 pm UTC (link)
The Unitarian Universalists don't have a similar document. They do have bylaws and such but nothing doctrinal or close to "canon law."

Yes, the UCC is the same way, which takes quite a bit of getting used to! Which is why the Episcopalians are so attractive to me. They work the same way the Methodists do, more or less.

I would wager that the average Methodist layperson has not heard of John Cobb one way or the other.

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[info]athanasios
2008-08-14 01:52 pm UTC (link)
Yes, the UCC is the same way, which takes quite a bit of getting used to!

I do like this somewhat... at least the have a common denominator. UU has no "real" common denominator.

Which is why the Episcopalians are so attractive to me. They work the same way the Methodists do, more or less.

Keep in mind they are having serious problems with the GLBT issue as well. At least the UCC is "safe" when it comes to sexual orientation.

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[info]mylifemyfaith
2008-08-14 03:39 pm UTC (link)
The big difference between the UCC and the UUA is that the UCC, though committed to congregational autonomy, remains united in Christ.

And, yes, the fact that the Episcopalians are much less LGBT friendly then the UCC gives me pause.

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[info]athanasios
2008-08-14 05:28 pm UTC (link)
Interestingly a spokesperson for the UUA described Unitarian Universalism as a "Post-Christian" denomination -- which has some UU Christians unhappy.

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